#125—Frederik Pferdt: Cultivating a Future-Ready Mindset

Frederik Pferdt is Google's first Chief Innovation Evangelist and author of "WHAT'S NEXT IS NOW: How To Live Future Ready.” 

During his time at Google, Frederik played a pivotal role in shaping one of the world's most renowned creative cultures. He founded Google's Innovation Lab, where he trained tens of thousands of Googlers to develop and experiment with cutting-edge ideas. For over a decade, he also taught groundbreaking classes on innovation and creativity at Stanford University. 

Something that shines through Frederik’s work is his eternal optimism and emphasis on an active creation of the future, rather than passive prediction. This perspective challenges us to think differently about innovation and our role in shaping the future. 

In this episode, Frederik shares: 

• How the future isn't something that merely happens to us, but something we have the power to actively create—a viewpoint that empowers organizations to see themselves as agents of change 
• The six dimensions of a future-ready mindstate, which together form a way of looking at the world that reveals potential all around you 
• Powerful—yet often underrated—psychological techniques that leverage positivity, gratitude, and optimism to enhance team dynamics, boost morale, and create a more innovative, engaged environment 

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Episode Timeline:
00:00—Highlight from today's episode
1:16—Introducing Frederik + the topic of today’s episode
3:38—If you really know me, you know that...
6:32— Defining strategy: Envisioning the future and designing experiments
07:52—Desired versus predictive future
09:51—The core idea of Frederik's book
11:41— The five dimensions of a future-ready mindset
15:14— Embracing optimism in innovation
17:26— Reimagining work: Using metaphors to envision the future
21:16— The mistake of relying on predictions and trends 
23:20— The evolution of life's priorities: From objects to relationships
26:10— The power of reframing: Transforming challenges into opportunities
28:12— The science behind optimism and the benefits of gratitude 
31:08—How can people follow you and continue learning from you?
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Additional Resources:
Personal website: www.frederikgpferdt.com
Link to book: What's Next Is Now: How to Live Future Ready
LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/fgpferdt/
Instagram: www.instagram.com/frederikgpferdt/

Thank you to our guest. Thank you to our executive producer, Karina Reyes, our editor, Zach Ness, and the rest of the team. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. I'm your host, Kaihan Krippendorff. Thank you for listening.

Follow us at outthinkernetworks.com/podcast

Transcript

Kaihan Krippendorff: Frederik, thank you so much for being here with us. And I know that you're joining us from a very exotic location. Thank you for taking the time.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Thanks for having me. Thank you. Yes. Joining you from the Santa Cruz Mountains. I don't know if it's exotic, but it's a great place to be. Yeah I'm very grateful for it.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: So when I picture the Santa Cruz Mountains, I picture you sitting with a glass of wine, and I don't I don't know the Santa Cruz Mountains well enough. Overlooking a vineyard or something like that? Where are you?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yes. We are in a little forest. Yes. With 2 geodesic domes. 1, we grow our own food in, another 1 that I'm right in here talking to you.
 
 We have a little schoolhouse for our kids,  a frame and lots of gardening space. Yes. And lots of play space or our kids as well. We have 3 kids, and an art studio where we love to just create stuff and do stuff.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Alright. So we have so much to cover from your excellent book and work and the experience that goes into it. I'd like to open up with 2 questions that I ask all of our listeners. And the first is just to help us get to know you a little bit more personally in which we already have already a bit. Could you complete the sentence for me?
 
 If you really know me, you know that.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: So if you really anew me, you would know that I hate doing things twice. So it's really true that I thrive on new things. So I'm constantly seeking to explore new ideas, perspective, experiences, whether it's through crossing the alts on a bike or a silent retreat in nature for about 10 days or, you know, whatever you have, it's that curiosity that really drives my love for learning and my passion for helping also others to, you know, do something not as a routine, but trying to do something new from time to time. And I know it's it's hard for our minds because our minds love to do things twice or even more times, but breaking out of that pattern and getting off autopilot is something I truly enjoy.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Great. I love that. Yeah. I was curious about that because I heard that about you, and I also know well, I don't know this for sure, but I get the sense that you maybe meditate or you have some rituals. And so I was wondering how when you do which, you know, something new versus something that has some virtual value to.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: And that's a great point. Right? Even in meditation, that could be, like, your daily practice, you can experiment and try new things every time. And so, you know, you need to always do, like, radically new things. Right?
 
 You can also in your routines or in your rituals, you can try new things. Right? You can explore, like, how can I sit differently in a meditation? How can I start breathing differently? What's a different type of meditation I wanna explore today?
 
 And so it's something that everybody can follow on, which really gets you 2 new possibilities and the new learnings as well and who doesn't like to have those 2 things. For a lot of people, it's quite difficult. So I got a lot of pushback from my friends and also family, you know, when I always wanted to go to a new restaurant or a new place for vacation or whatever it is. Right? Most people would not like that because they say, like, hey.
 
 Let's go to this amazing thing that we've value so much and we know it's gonna be great and so forth. And I say, like, Yeah. But there's a billion things out there that we haven't tried, and they can also be great. Right? So why don't we follow that path?
 
 And slowly, I convince my family that we actually always try something new whether it comes brought to restaurants or places we visit and so forth. And they kind of now enjoy it too, which I really I really like.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Awesome. Alright. So many follow-up questions there, but we have a lot to cover. So before we get into your specific content, you've spent a lot of time facilitating strategic conversations. So what is your definition of strategy?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yes. I wouldn't say that I have an academic even definition of strategy. But what I have is a pretty good understanding, I think, what worked for a lot of leaders, a lot of people that I have been working with, you know, even in organizations like Google or at the UN or other organizations where I was able to facilitate conversations that really were about the future. Right? And the strategy is about imagining a future that doesn't yet exist and at the same time creating the pathways to bring it to life.
 
 And the path to the future is paved with experiments. So that's the addition I would bring to that conversation, which is, again, strategies about envisioning the future that inspires and then designing the experiments that move us toward that vision. So it's a dynamic process for me where imagination meets action, allowing us to explore, to learn, to adapt as we create that pathway to bring our vision to life. So think of it as imagining the future that doesn't exist yet. Combined with experiments to get you towards that future.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Yes. And just a clarification question for our listeners here. When you're envisioning the future that doesn't exist yet in in in your speaking of it, is it a predicted future like, what you think is going to happen, or is it a created future or both?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: So for me, it's the future that you wanna see happening. Right? And that is a desired future that I think is really exciting because that can be different for a lot of people. Right? It can be different what you desire to happen next in the next year or next 10 years or next hundred years.
 
 Then for me. Right? But having that conversation, that clear picture, I think, brings us closer together so that we can compare, we can, you know, feel inspired by each other's visions, and then maybe all work towards a specific vision that we wanna see happening. So for me, it's a desired future.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Yes. Big aha's for me from listening to your work and reading your work is this important. So the value of putting yourself in that future and as opposed to being the predictive future outside of yourself, which gives you agency and gives you a role to play.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yeah. And a little bit more control and a little bit more I think satisfaction where, you know, everybody asks that question, what will the future bring? Right? That's the prediction question. And we love weather apps.
 
 We love the stock market predictions, we love, you know, whatever predictions are out there. Right? Whenever the new year kicks kicks off, we're all very cautious not cautious. We're all very curious to hear what are the latest predictions about the next year? Right?
 
 But I think that's wrong. That's the wrong question to ask. We shouldn't ask what will the future bring or even the year. We should ask ourselves what future do I want to create and put ourselves into that picture of that future.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: So I think we're circling in on it as well, but already but if you were to kind of summarize what work you are known for that you kind of captured in this book, what would what would you say the someone who hears the book and says, this is I gotta read this book because of this idea. What the point of it is? How would you describe it?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yes. I think, for me, the core idea is that the future is not something that just happens to us. It's something we actively create. And that is, for me, very important because it changes our relationship with the future. Where most of us has a real have a relationship that is sometimes guided by fear or anxiety, definitely by uncertainty.
 
 But it has doesn't have to be that way. It also can be exciting to think about the future. Right? When we think about the future as our future that we actively create in shape, I think most of us will get excited about it because we mostly put out a vision of a better future for ourselves. And whatever that means, it could be a better a relationship.
 
 It could be a happier life, a healthier life. It could be anything like that. And the core of how I want to think about the future is that we not just envision a future that is materialistic. Meaning, like, there will be robots or there will be a specific car that I am envisioning in my future or a house or whatever it is. It should be more towards how do I wanna be in the future.
 
 What are the deeper human qualities that I want to embrace in the future and how can I move towards those qualities?
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Yeah. So I'm listening with both from an individual perspective and also from the perspective of a strategist or an innovator that's maybe guiding a team or an organization towards creating the future because know, as you say is the strategy is the creating of the future and then the experiments that help us realize the future. Maybe just talk to us a little bit about and you've got a number of, for me, really big points here about the power of optimism of openness. Maybe just unpack 1 of those for us. What is something that many people get wrong that they should rethink?
 
 As they guide a team or an organization to is, you know, create the future that they create as opposed to plan for a predicted future?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yes. So I talk about 5 dimensions of a, what I call, a future ready mind state. And there is a couple of things that I really find valuable, I think, for our listeners, which are that these dimensions are all things that should sound familiar to you in the first place. Right? And those are optimism, openness, curiosity, empathy, and experimentation.
 
 And all of those should be something that, you know, you came across in your work as a as a leader, as a strategist, as an innovation leader in your organization. Or even as a human being, like a father or as somebody who is part of a community. So those are all deeply human qualities. What I think is interesting that when we dial up these dimensions, when we are more optimistic, more open, more curious when we are more empathetic and experiment more, you see more opportunities. Those opportunities will actually emerge.
 
 And I think that's something that we can all become better at. For example, turning our negativity bias that we all find in ourselves, looking for flaws or the mistakes or the obstacles, and looking for the opportunities in something where I feel which is very related to innovation, which is an emotional process usually. Right? When you come up first with your idea and which is very fragile, you are very excited most of the time because you think you're gonna solve some big problem here. And then someone tells you, like, this idea might not work.
 
 Right? So you're frustrated. Right? Even angry sometimes. And then you move towards building your first experiment or prototype, you test your idea.
 
 And some things might not work out. Right? So you experience failure. Which is also an emotion that, you know, really is experienced by you. And then, you know, you move towards building the idea and putting it down into the world and, like, it changes people's lives and so you feel responsibility and so forth.
 
 So it's a very emotional process. And I think what I want to help people with is that this emotional process of creating the future can be something you train yourself in, where you can train yourself to be more optimistic, to be more open, to experiment better. To have more empathy and so forth. And that really is something that is exciting and also very accessible to people. And I wanna help people to really learn how to make themselves better in shaping their own future.
 
 And that is something hopefully, that is appealing for a lot of people because I don't wanna have my future being decided by someone else or decided by something else. I wanted to create my own future, and I wanna create a better future, and I wanna show people how to do that.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: So, yeah, this this pops an idea in my mind that I hadn't had coming in here yet, and so I'm maybe off here. But I feel like in the process of, say, creating a plan for a future, there's, like, 1 stage which is here's a possible solution and having optimism to be able to experiment and say, we could figure this out. If we apply that optimism early on, it could lead people to say, oh, there's nothing wrong here. There's nothing there's no issue that we need to solve. It will happen anyway.
 
 Right? We could gotta lead us away from wanting to create. I don't know. You have any reaction to that?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Absolutely. And that's the argument I hear every time. Right? We need to look at what could possibly go wrong. This will lead you down a path where you actually all will agree that we should not pursue this idea, which is fascinating to me.
 
 Right? The mind just tells you, like, hey. Don't say yes. Don't go down that path. Don't try it out.
 
 Don't open up yourself for something new. Go with what you know. Go with what really works out. Because that's the safest thing to do. And we need to trick our minds and say, like, no.
 
 No. No. The safest thing to do is not here to go with an approach that we already tested and tried or with going something that we've already known. It's the opposite. We need to go with the unknown.
 
 We need to go into trying something new, and that, hey, brain might feel uncomfortable for you. Absolutely. But it's the only way to move beyond the status quo. Because the worst thing that can happen is that we go back to square 1, and we don't move. We don't make any progress.
 
 And I think a lot of organizations, a lot of individuals, are just stuck because they find the most important reasons why they should not innovate, why they should not do something new, why they should not change. Right? And, usually, the people who yell those reasons the loudest, they get all the they were listened to the most. And I think that's wrong. I think we should listen to the people who say, like, hey.
 
 Let's try it. We don't know if it's gonna work out, but it's worth trying because that's the only way to make progress.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: So I can hear you're speaking, and I know from your experience that you have experienced it, ex explicitly that reaction as you have facilitated groups or participated in groups. So let's just put ourselves in the mind of is someone who's facilitating this conversation. Someone presents this idea, and there are some people with no optimism. Here are the hundred reasons why this won't work. And technically, if feasible, feasible, and legally, and functionally, and all of that.
 
 Right? How do you move them forward in that situation? How do you facilitate that moment?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yes. There's 2 things that you need to create. 1 is that people need to be excited about the future and the idea that you know, present. And the second thing is they need to somehow feel that they are involved. That the idea either, you know, comes from them partially or fully And I remember that when the pandemic started, I was called into leader project called project reimagined for Google.
 
 And so the leadership was giving me that task to say, like, hey, Fred, we need to reimagine how work works. At this hundred 35000 people large organization back then. And, you know, I remember, like, I went out of this dome and talked to my wife and talked to the family, and I was super excited to be tasked with that project. Because for me, that's something exciting to look forward to. Right?
 
 Creating and shaping that future. And, you know, Google invented different types of how we work together in the past. So they have really high expectations to do it again. And so for me, it was about a process that went on for 6 weeks to really engage about 26 leaders across the organization to really reimagine work. And before going like, I don't think we have time to go deep into what we actually did, but 1 thing that really helped us to make progress and move forward is to use metaphors to imagine how the future could look like.
 
 And so I asked everyone to bring a metaphor and even a picture of something that they feel like this could have elements of the future of work. And so people brought a beehive, for example. Right? And they talked about how bees, you know, organized, they work together, how the queen is kind of, like, guiding the interactions, how there's, like, 2 b's at the entrance of the beehive or 3 b's or a couple of b's that really check-in to see, like, if these are belonging to that community or not and so forth. So it was really interesting to dive into, like, a beehive, for example, and how these organize themselves and get work done as well.
 
 And so lots of leaders and everybody in in the 26 group brought a metaphor of how they envision the future of work. And so, obviously, we didn't build, like, off a beehive, but we used some of those elements to really feel inspired, and that really help us to also create a vision for the future of work for that organization. So that's just 1 thing where you have people turn away from, like, finding arguments why this would not work, why they're not passionate about this idea and move towards excitement and say, like, yeah. I I like these things, and I like that. We are now inspired by 26 metaphors of the future of work, inspired by nature, or you know, how to live on the moon that some what somebody brought kind of like as a as a metaphor, and just combining those and drawing out the best element so that you can build a vision for the future that is really inspired by everyone on that group.
 
 So everybody feels that they participate. They belong with their idea in that future strategy and that future vision. And I think that's very important.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Yes. Yes. I love it. Yeah. The the sense of, like, shared commitment to the creation and shared creation and seeing it as a journey of experiments, not a design of a perfect solution that will be buildable when we open the doors.
 
 Absolutely. All of those who love that.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: You know? Maybe sharing 1 learning that I that really helped me to also inspire my work moving forward, which is, like, most people, when they're tasked with reimagining something and trying to you know, reimagine work or life or health care or an industry, whatever it is. They usually make a big mistake, and that is they're trying to look for predictions or trends. So they invite people that can predict, you know, a specific future in that specific category, and they're sharing trends that might become true or not. And I think that's a mistake.
 
 Because that really narrows down your vision. Instead, you should actually look for what is something you desire to create. What is something that you can draw from nature, that you can draw from a very different industry, that you can draw from someone who is not an expert, right, who might be a beginner or a novice in in in that specific area, and what are some of the ideas you can draw out from them? So I usually like to either invite children you know, people who have no idea about that specific topic or invite someone who doesn't do predictions but really shares a powerful story of how they wanna live in the future. And if you do those things, you're moving away from that part where most people trying to look for an answer from someone who is pretending to predict the future and tells you exactly like this is gonna happen in the next year or next 10 years.
 
 And I think that's the biggest mistake most of the leaders are actually making.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Interesting. Yeah. So I've heard kind of the argument that we can't predict the future's gonna be ready for multiple futures. What you're saying is, I mean, it's that distinction we opened up with about creating the future, about you, causing. If I look at what like, many of Google's big innovations, it hasn't been predicting a market space and then building forward ahead of time.
 
 It's been the actual creating of that space, which makes a lot of sense. I have a bunch of questions to follow-up on. We're not gonna have time to cover all of it. You've got great content as well available for people. I'm gonna put them off to the side.
 
 I'm gonna ask you a few more questions. We have time. I'll go back to some of the others. Just kind of out of the blue here, what like, what's something that you've changed your mind about?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yes. I probably changed my mind on something every day, which we I like. It drives a lot of people crazy. I think I think the most important thing I've ever changed my mind about is what truly matters in life. And that is a constant discovery process.
 
 Right? And when you're young, you often think that things matter the most. Right? Objects, materialistic things. And as you grow up, you realize that experiences hold more value. Right?
 
 So you wanna go an adventure with your friends, you wanna have experiences, and so forth. But, ultimately, it's the relationships that you build and your health that are most meaningful and most impactful and most important probably in your life. And I've learned that helping others discover this shift in perspective can really empower them to focus on what really matters, fostering deeper connections, prioritizing their well-being, and maybe leading a more fulfilling life. So I think moving through the years realizing that you start off feeling like the materialistic things are the most important, then you realize that experience are more important than that. And then ultimately, probably realizing that the relationships that you have are actually the most important and most meaningful in your lives.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Yeah. And there's that famous Harvard study that sort of supports this that the people are most happy or are the ones that have the most meaningful relationships. Absolutely. Old age.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Yeah. Robert Robert Walding are actually a good friend of mine. Keep it out that that study that really is the longest study that was ever conducted around happiness and what makes you a happy individual but also what helps you to live longer, interestingly. And it's the quantity and the quality of your relationships. So both actually matters.
 
 So the better your relationships and the more you really you have relationships. The happier you will be and the longer you live, and I think that's very compelling.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: That's worth it. It's worth it to be open to relationships and prioritizing relationships. It's get getting a little practical here. Is there a favorite framework or tool or because that you find particularly useful, whether that's 1 that you created or 1 that you've observed?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: There is. Yes. It's called reframing. And the reframing is for me probably the most powerful tool that helps us to shift our perspective. It's a powerful technique because it involves shifting your perspective on a situation to see it in a new light.
 
 And reframing helps you really transform challenges into opportunities, for example. Right? And allows you to approach problems with that fresh perspective. And 1 exercise on reframing that everybody can try is when next time you encounter a challenge or a setback, just take a moment to pause and reflect and ask yourself. How can I view this situation differently?
 
 What if this obstacle that you encounter is actually an opportunity in disguise. Right? So you can write down at least 3 alternative perspectives on the situation. And by con consciously so by consciously practicing this shift in perspective, you train your mind to see possibilities for other c limitations. And that is very powerful.
 
 1 of the biggest reframes that I helped people with was doing the pandemic. Again, on this project reimagine, where I told people you have to reframe from I have to work from home towards I can work from home. And that single shift and reframe really opened up possibilities for people where they say, like, yes. If I see that differently, where I'm not forced to work from home, but I'm allowed and I can work from home. That is a simple reframe that really allow us to see possibilities.
 
 And I think reframing is something we can practice and train ourselves in which is very powerful on a on a moment to moment basis.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: I'm so glad that you responded that way because there is a question that I wanna ask that I thought we wouldn't have time to. But now you've kind of led right to it, so I'm good to ask it. Just to unpack a little bit for us, a little bit of the science. I love your work in which you talk about, like, the science of the kind of optimism that comes from reframing. Not just like, oh, it makes me feel good, but they're actually in terms of, like, problem solving or future creating What's the scientific reason why Yeah.
 
 Having optimism is important?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: There's so much science in the positive psychology, for example. Right? That really helps you to understand that if you change and reframe your thinking from negative thinking and, you know, thinking about obstacles towards seeing possibilities and seeing something is as a learning opportunity for yourself. Right? What that can actually create in you.
 
 There's health benefits. There is benefits in your relationships then. There's benefits that others will actually engage more with you, which I think is very powerful. Right? If you are a positive and optimistic person, there's a higher chance that people actually wanna work with you and wanna do, you know, projects with you and so forth.
 
 So there's lots of interesting science behind it. And for me, what I what I really like to focus on and that's what a big part in the book is about is these practices that everybody can try. So instead of just, like, following a scientific study, which obviously proves everything that we are talking about, trying to give people experiences so that they can find it out themselves where they say, like, yeah. I wanna, for example, use the science of magnitude, which is very clear that if you say, thank you to someone in your team, as a leader. That team member will be happy, right, obviously.
 
 The science interestingly also tells you that if you share that, thank you note with someone. That could be verbally, it could be over email, it could be, like, in written form, it makes you happy too. Right? So there's a benefit for the team member, but also there's a benefit for you as a leader. So we use that practice in our leadership meetings too where we said, like, yeah.
 
 Let's say thank you to someone on the team for work they've done for something they have done in the for the team or for the organization or whatever it is. And everybody wanted to send out that thank you note in the leadership team because they knew the science is that not just gonna make that person happy who receives that, but it's gonna make you happy too as the sender. So that was an interesting twist on how to use the science, but also give people an experience where they could send those out those notes out. And experience moments of happiness, right, immediately. So that's something very powerful that you can practice yourself by just sharing notes of gratitude with people as well.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Yes. Beautiful. That brings up 5 other topics but we've reached the top of our time with you. How can people continue to learn from you and stay connected with you?
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Absolutely. Yeah. So also happy to learn from people. Right? It's not just a one way street here.
 
 So you can find me anywhere on all your favorite platforms. Obviously, the book is a good starting point too, right, where we share stories and from what I call future readies, those people who really embrace this future ready mind state, incredible individuals that build remarkable futures for themselves. Right? And I share stories and how they actually do that. There's also practices everybody can try.
 
 So if you like some of the practices that I've shared here. Are you definitely gonna love all of those practices that are in the book? And then there's parts of my experience at Google and at Stanford and in other organizations like the FBI or the UN and in startups too, where I feel there is something that I was fortunate enough to learn that I wanna share with people so that they either don't make the same mistake or learn from that too to apply it in their organization. So feel free to check out the book. And, yeah, you can find me also with the next letter, which is something that comes every second Friday in your inbox, hopefully, that gives you experiments you can try.
 
 It gives you stories. It also gives you my perspectives on the current world that hopefully will inspire you to build a better future.
 
 Kaihan Krippendorff: Excellent. Well, thank you for sharing that and for the work that you do and for unpacking part of it with us here. Thank you so much for being with us today.
 
 Frederik Pferdt: Thanks so much for having me.